Eunseon Park: I studied painting since I was very young. After graduating from painting school, I went to UK to study more, but I didn’t like culture there. It was a bit too snobbish, and it made me question imperialist and colonialist tendencies. So I came back to Korea and I started Listen to the City in 2009. At the time I was teaching art and art history at the universities, but I felt that something was wrong in the art history field too. We don’t have a South Korean art history because we were colonized by Japan for 30 years, followed by the brutal war. Because of this lack of a national modern art history, it was very challenging to start doing contemporary art in South Korea. So what is contemporary art? And in what context can one do something about it? I tried really hard to find my own way of contributing.

And the one thing that stuck out to me were the urban issues in South Korea, because I was born and raised in Seoul, where we have severe evictions and gentrification. But if you turn on the news on TV, there’s no coverage of the issue. I thought this was wrong and problematic. Around that the time, 6 people were killed during the evictions. It was a big event for everyone; we were so shocked. After this, we started to make an independent magazine about urbanism called Urban Drawings. A good thing about South Korea is that we can print books really quickly, cheaply and nicely. We’ve since printed many books on urban issues, and later I started a Listen to the City publishing house as well.

Since the beginning, we have surveyed and researched a lot on the gentrification in city centers, and especially about the river issues. But it’s not enough. You also have to fight against actual gangsters. I wanted to fight better, and I wanted to learn more about urban laws, so I studied more on urban planning and completed a PhD in this field.

EP: I was invited to Anders Riel Müller, who is an Associate Professor in City and Regional Planning at University of Stavanger. He is Danish; born in South Korea, but adopted by a Danish family. So he grew up in Denmark, but he often visited South Korea. I met him in Copenhagen in 2011, and he knows what we’re doing quite well, because he visited our site in Cheongyecheon. Later he asked us to come to Svankevigå in Stavanger to do research on the area. But I was more interested in what’s happening in Pedersgata, because obviously there is gentrification going on there.

EP: First of all, we value data. Data is really important for understanding social phenomenons. I had a feeling that something was going on in Pedersgata. And people complained that it was changing; that the demographic was changing, that windows got bigger, that houses were demolished to build bigger and taller. But there was no exact evidence. So I wanted to find evidence for what they were talking about.

I don’t think that Pedersgata Utvikling [a private company which owns much of the street] is the worst developer.  I’ve been seeing far worse cases in South Korea. At least they don’t hire private gangsters to evict people! But there is a more silent violence going on. First of all, the contracts for tenants are too weak in Norway. Eviction can happen on a very short notice. In South Korea, we changed the law in 2018, so people can be protected in their rented homes and business spaces for up to 10 years. So we have less arguments now, we have less fights, which is very good for tenants. It matters, because small shops, for example, are really important for every city. It’s the people and the small business that bring the very charm and energy to the streets.

In places like South Korea, Japan and Germany, you cannot evict tenants under the pretence of fixing or refurbishing a house. But in Norway you can. So actually what Pedersgata Utvikling are doing is not illegal at all. There’s nothing illegal there. But it should be! Many house or building owners have evicted tenants everywhere in the world, just start their own business or so they accommodate a Starbucks later on. So there is a need to change the law.

Everywhere in the world, we are facing historical issues. There is no history in the city. If you go to Seoul, you’ll be surprised that there’s no trace of Korea. You can see a bit, but in general, there’s no trace. In South Korea, only 3% of buildings are from before the 1930s. It’s very, very small number. Everything else has been demolished. So if Stavanger values its wooden houses, then you have to think about how to protect them. Just next to Rogaland Kunstsenter, where we are now, Stavanger kommune is letting several beautiful houses rot away. This should be illegal.

Finally, if you go to the website of Stavanger Kommune, it states that you are allowed to make minor changes to old buildings. But there is no exact category for minor changes. What is minor? So this is not even a clear rule. You have to make it more concrete. We know that Pedersgata Utvikling hired a person who formerly worked for Stavanger kommune to file their applications for modifications. Hiring someone from who used to work somewhere, of course, is not illegal. However, through the many interviews I did for this project, I discovered that many people couldn’t get permission to make changes, while Pedersgata Utvikling did, which just confirms that Stavanger kommunes “minor changes” are not clearly defined. There is a lack of consistency.

EP: Yes, we needed to do this exhibition actually! The reason we did so much, putting so much energy into this exhibition, is because I met so many people saying “we don’t have a problem, we don’t have gentrification” [in Stavanger]. Pedersgata is a crystal clear example of gentrification, but people deny it. I was wondering why?

Monopoly is a problem there too. People think that this is not a problem, but one consequence of monopoly is that it destroys the diversity of the street. Also, in Norway you have this special system called Nabovarsel, where you have to let your neighbours know about building changes. But Pedersgata Utvikling owns 75% of commercial shops and 60% of residential houses in the street. In the legal sense, this is a monopoly. And they are their own neighbours, so they don’t need to let other people know what’s going on. This is a problem. Stavanger kommune should listen to inhabitants and local initiatives. They can make a street better, not just private developers.

EP: Yes, but these initiatives just started and I hope they get to breathe a little longer. This type of work takes persistence, and I hope they do more to change the laws and policies as well. That would be great. So far they reached some people, which is a good beginning. But talking to people is not enough. Meetings aren’t enough. So to support them, we actually made a publication called DIY Grassroots Urban Planning. It’s basically a manual. So if you’re interested in any urban issues, you can do it. Yeah! Start it right now. This is your toolbox. The publication is meant to show how you can change the law, how to write press releases and so on.

EP: Yes. We also made a manifesto, of which we are making a Stavanger version during a public workshop tomorrow. In addition to Listen to the City, Folkegata and Byverksted, there are also other partners listed in the publication: Nora (Feminist Homeless Movement) from Tokyo, The Centre for Land Affairs in Hong Kong, Collective Amajiso from Mexico City – we are all together, supporting each other, sharing knowledge. This is an international issue.

We must push the South Korean government, push the Norwegian government to make more public housing. Why? Look to South Korea; the income is more or less half of what people in Stavanger make, but the apartments are four times as expensive. Four times! It makes people give up. Especially artists, they cannot survive in South Korea. They are balancing five jobs, six jobs. We are suffocated by real estate.

EP: Yeah, actually we use that technique all the time, because I trained as a scientist. In-depth interviews are really important to understand what’s going on. We do many quantitative surveys, but also we use qualitative research. I conducted 22 interviews here in Stavanger, which is quite a lot. And we have done many interviews in other projects too: Talking to people with disabilities who are left behind after the earthquake in Pohang in South Korea, or workers in the Cheongyecheon area.

Norway has a small population compared to South Korea and Seoul. Stavanger city is smaller than the district that I live in, for example. In this sense, there is a gap, but it’s probably the right time to warn people here about the damage of gentrification. There is great potential and energy, so the soil is fertile for organized movement. Right now is a critical moment for Pedersgata and the city, and for sure it might still turn in the wrong direction. Look at what’s going on in Badedammen, for example, so many apartments being built. If you want an apartment, honestly, just go to China. There are lots in Shenzhen, or come to Seoul. There are crazy skyscrapers. Why do we go to Svankevigå? To see more of those apartment buildings? No!

EP: We opened a website in relation to the exhibition. There, you can leave a message about Stavanger, and I hope it can be used as an archive for the area. We are also doing workshops in the weeks ahead. What is happening in Stavanger is quite serious. We want to push Stavanger kommune a bit. What the private companies are doing is not driven by a brain or a heart, they are just following the money. The least we can do it warn people, encourage people to think about the next generation. We cannot eat concrete.

Artists are trained to understand the world differently. That’s why there are a lot of artists becoming activists. In this context, we have to think about the value of cultural spaces like Svankevigå. Even if it’s not that big or old, we have to really consider it, think about it. I would encourage people to be more engaged, just not complain on Facebook, but actually write something to the municipality and so on. But not just as one person, organize more! And for this you have DIY Grassroots Urban Planning.