Martina Petrelli: I’ve been thinking about this question in preparation for today. For me a studio visit is just two people talking about what they are working on or what their thoughts are at the moment. And it can happen anywhere and with anyone. But then in a professional context, the format has been formalized. And it is this formalization that starts creating issues and unethical or uncomfortable moments.

Anna Ihle: I think an additional perspective is that a studio visit can also be a simple ‘ateljé samtal’ – a studio talk. There are many different kinds of studio visits, some formal and some very casual.

AI: At an open studio, as an artist, I don’t know who’s gonna visit. But I do have expectations that people behave as they would if they visit somebody else’s workplace. You don’t just immediately start touching and taking things. Ask yourself what is basic, acceptable behavior generally speaking in a workplace. But an Open Studio is kind of like an open house. You don’t know who is going to come so you have to kind of prepare your space and be ready for many different interactions. Closed studio visits can feel different. As an artist, maybe you aren’t sure if you should allow something that’s not decent behavior because the person that you’re dealing with has a higher status or is differently placed in the professional hierarchy.

MP: I have been working as a curator for the past 10 years in Norway during which I have been involved in private studio visits in various ways. I feel very privileged lately in my work, because I was invited to work as a curator at Atelier Kunstnerforbundet. Kunstberforbundet is the oldest artist-owned and artist-run institution in Norway. It was established in 1910 as an idealistic corporation with 150 artists and to this day it is only run on an open call basis. In 2018 the previous curator Kari Skippervold and director Kjersti Solbakken acquired the top two floors of the building and created studios and an event space. In a situation where Oslo has just lost 40% of the studios in the center of the city, I feel grateful to be able to work as a curator with artists in these new studios that are only steps away from City Hall. I work with artists over the course of two years and they/we are not obligated to make anything. We can just have eternal studio visits. My work is to create the support structure and workshops and help them develop based on their interests. There is no pre-made program.

In that context, it’s very interesting to explore where the format of a studio visit can go, because we’re basically housemates. I can have studio visits with them every two days or every two weeks – it really just follows their needs. Within this structure, we have funding to pay people to come for studio visits, because we recognize it as labor in cultural work. So I also work as a facilitator in that case.

AI: When a person goes to see an exhibition, I think they spend an average of 3 seconds with each artwork. So imagine if someone has an ambition of seeing all the open studios – that’s impossible! 

So realistically, some people will want to try to see many, and some people may have chosen only a few names to visit. And a lot of people are anxious about speaking to people. There are so many reasons why people act the way they do. So my strategy is to remove or cover all the stuff that I don’t want people to touch, and to make it so that strangers can enter and leave without pressure.

One thing I want to underline is that Open Studios is very, very important in Stavanger and elsewhere right now. We have to show the public that they have to spend money on culture, and for them to see that we’re here and show that we’re working – that we’re worth investing in. This is an important political moment.

MP: I absolutely second that. For me, Open Studios is also a lot about agency, and it’s also about how very often art is placed in institutional contexts and the general audience does not often have the opportunity to access it outside of these institutions. Open Studios means a lot of added agency for the audience. 

In terms of what you get out of a studio visit, generally in culture, results are not measurable in the same way in which you measure success in a business, and this becomes an issue when that is the expectation. The way in which it is asked for artists and institutions to prove that what you’re doing has a value in order to receive funds has been problematic lately. Value is not always immediate. I think we need to have more trust in the audiences and people who come to look during open studios. Even if someone spends two seconds in your studio, it doesn’t mean that they’re not interested. As Anna said, they might want to try to see everything. There’s so much work happening in the background. A person might really like something, and think, “Okay, I’m going to spend hours researching this artist when I’m back home”, and maybe engage in a conversation later. 

AI: Many people don’t have a studio, and their home is their studio. But at the same time, open studios can be difficult because it’s hard to expect something very specific. If you feel that you really don’t want people to touch anything, then I think it’s our job as artists to say “Hey, welcome. This is my studio. Please don’t touch anything.” 

MP: It’s really hard because it’s a space of process, and it can be a rather vulnerable space. Anna participated in a workshop with me at Atelier Kunstnerforbundet with Feminist Culture House from Helsinki. They have created a poster which is a flow chart that guides you through the power structures and what to do before, during and after a visit. (As a side note, because of issues brought up by artists, Oslo Open bought a number of these posters to distribute in studio collectives in the city.) I do think that there needs to be responsibility and accountability from both sides.

MP: It was actually through Anna that I discovered the work of Feminist Culture House. Because of their work around studio visit ethics, I invited them to come to Oslo as part of the program at Atelier Kunstnerforbundet to run a workshop, and have a couple of networking meetings with Oslo Open and Balansekunst, amongst others. The workshop was a closed event with a limited number of participants. We wanted to create a safer space to discuss openly and follow the pages of the new workbook tool created for the occasion called Getting on the Same Page. The workbook takes a very playful approach to these topics because it imitates a child’s coloring book.

The workshop was basically just collectively working through the workbook, filling it out while also being in conversation with others. We tried to write what our core values are, our dream work situation or work week, all the way down to details such as email signature. And there is no right or wrong. It really is just about considering all of these things and figuring out what works for you. There were other topics too, like how do you work when in conflict? What tools do you need when there is a conflict that arises? Do you need an advocate and if so, who? Or perhaps you need to create a document clarifying your needs at the very beginning.

The workshop also included activities like studio visit bingo. I won, unfortunately. I’m sure every single one of us have had some of these really weird experiences during studio visits, for example: A surprise guest during the appointment, or someone asking “but what does it mean?”, or the visitor ghosts you, or the studio is actually an apartment, and you have to sit on someone’s bed. It was funny but also serious because these can be very uncomfortable situations. 

At the end of the workshop, we had a public event in which Feminist Culture House (Katie Lenanton and Paola Jalili) were in conversation with the mutual support network Verdensrommet (Patricia Carolina and Sarah Kazmi – who is also one of the Atelier Kunstnerforbundet artists) where we expressed these needs and shared strategies. All of the texts and resources from the workshop are free and available online. 

AI: Currently, I’m actually studying organizational psychology, for fun and for art. It has become clear to me that part of the reason we’re struggling to formulate our norms is that we’re a very small group and the frequency of studio visits is inconsistent. So much of the stuff that happens in our field happens one on one. So it’s difficult to gather statistics or create agreed upon behavioral norms within the field around studio visits. It’s hard to generalize. 

But the power dynamics are there all the time. I became kind of more educated on this when I was working with #metoo in 2017. I was working with a group within the Norwegian art field, and a lot of the situations that were described actually were around studio visits, for example: Suddenly this guy became really stiff and asked me if I could give him a massage or other really weird stuff. Other people said they always have the door open during studio visits. It’s a vulnerable situation. How can we work within this power hierarchy? 

The starting point is to be aware that there is a hierarchy. And then to think about what steps to take to make sure you feel safe and supported.

MP: Studio visits can feel very competitive. Part of my practice is to actively reject competition, especially in a privileged art scene such as the Norwegian one. And for that, it means that there is so much work to do before meeting someone. If possible, it’s nice to know if there is something in particular the artist would like to talk about and receive material in advance, so that the time of the visits can be in the exchange and not in the initial discovery or information about the practice or the work. Otherwise, I do as much research as possible. I like to read articles with different perspectives. It always feels good when someone feels seen because of your interest and previous research on their practice. If you are curious and can ask a question or mention a work you saw previously, that can be helpful in creating a safer space. It communicates that you are interested and you have put some work into this interaction. For me, it’s also respectful. This is why, at the Atelier, we not only remunerate curators for studio visits, we also pay them for half an hour of advance preparation. 

I also usually have a notepad with me. I prefer not having screens, because there are always other things that come up and distract you. One of the strengths of my practice is to create connections – it could be a book, another person, an exhibition I saw, anything. I don’t want to interrupt the conversation, so it helps me to just write it down really fast, so that I can keep being present in the exchange. Of course I mention these in the conversation but also afterwards, I usually send an email with all of the links and connections in case it is useful to the artist. It usually takes me an hour or more to do that.

AI: Personally, I always have to make space for someone to walk through my studio so that they won’t hurt themselves. There is a lot of physical preparation. I also have a lot of digital studio visits, so that’s good because then I can just shift the screen a little bit. But otherwise, it’s like preparing for any kind of conversation. Where do we start? What are my questions? Are there any texts, materials, or any specific things I want to discuss? It’s about trying to find connections in the work and with another person. 

AI: Well, I’d like to lift up the potential of the studio visit itself as a learning experience for both parties. It’s a way to practice formulating your work, as well as gain new perspectives. That shifts the expectation from trying to get a show to trying to learn from this conversation. Conversations and relationships can build over time – that can be really valuable. 

MP: Yes, we live in a capitalist world where we do things because we get something back. I like to challenge that. I work with something that has been called by others ‘non-innocent ideologies of care’. This means to approach something with kindness and awareness – to behave like you want things to become. However, the non-innocent part is to also be aware of the power dynamics and the issues of time, money, etc. The most beautiful thing for me to get out of a studio visit is to get a different point of view on something or to have a conversation that is gonna stick with you, because it has opened up a pathway in your mind that you previously did not have access to. 

AI: Continuing on in this artist/curator relationship, I think we’re all acknowledging the extreme value of simply having interesting conversations. And no offense, but we don’t need curators to have interesting conversations! We need to do better. I think we need to practice having more thorough conversations with each other and to actually delve into one another’s practices. That’s a way to develop our work, to develop how we formulate our work, and will make our conversations with curators even better. I think that’s really something that we can all get better at.